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andy Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 6237 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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They also called some of the .38sp and .357s "Bulldogs" too. Though I have seen variations of the the other two called "undercover" as well, depending on the barrels. I have yet to see a .44 called anything else yet, but I am not sure it is impossible. I have a manual for the .44 bulldog that list parts and variations I will have to dig up. All the .22 variations also seem to only be called a pathfinder, even if they arent the version made off of the AR-7.
Andy |
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racprops Community Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 2450 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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Of course at the end it is a 44 pistol frame with a custom 4 inch barrel..with a Styer receiver stuck on top and ammo housing hung below.
Styer inspired double triggers and trigger guard.
Then a set of custom oversized grips.
A pair of cylinder covers and a large butt plate to finish it all out.
Rich _________________ I never have enough time to do all I want to do! |
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Noeland Community Guide
Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 1328
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Rich, I don't think you should be taking this thread so personally. I certainly don't think it was ever meant as a "Rich is wrong" thread, just a discussion of the gun frame.
At the same time, nobody has egg on their face, and nobody owes you an apology.
The charter arms bulldog in some cases these days is called a "pug".
http://www.thegunzone.com/bulldog-pug.html
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/ga_charterarms_0801/
The notched pin that the commercial guns have just above the trigger was removed for the hero gun so that it wouldn't get in the way of the side cover opening and closing.
You can see the hole in the hero gun frame where the notched pin once was.
There is absolutely no doubt that it's a chart arms frame.
My understanding of the difference between "undercover" and "Bulldog" and "Bulldog pug" is all about the barrel length, and now they are producing the barrels with an extractor shroud, which they did not previously do. _________________ I don't have enough blasters! |
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Once-bitten Banned!
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1317
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Noeland for more clearly stating what my intentions were here...I personally get very excited anytime Karl talks about his experience of holding and taking pictures of the real deal and if he has a question after having held it for such an extensive period, then I think it's valid to talk about it and consider possibilities.
As for "attacking" or "starting in" on someone...
I answered a question honestly and from my own perspective by pointing out what I thought were discrepencies in the photo.
I guess I should have stopped and considered the source, then maybe I would have realized that it was intended as a "Trick" question with the only possible answer being whatever he had decided it should be in his head.
Wouldn't it have been easier to simply post: Here's what I found in my extensive research...rather than to go Postal on someone for looking at something a little differently? I don't recall saying to anyone..."Frak you" or calling anyone a "Bitch" or an "Ass-hole".
(IMHO) Someone here has no interest in discussion where the BR Blaster is concerned. They seem much more interested in putting themselves out there as having the Gospel and final word as to all it's details.
I myself enjoy looking at and considering the possibility of NEW discoveries where the BR Blaster is concerned...I think of it like the play: HAMLET.
Why is it still interesting and muchly debated about after 400 years?
Because everytime you seriously examine it, you discover something new.
MY two cents... |
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andy Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 6237 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Picture of shroud from 1970's magazine.
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eltee Community Member
Joined: 31 Oct 2006 Posts: 437 Location: West Coast USA
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Once-bitten wrote: | Good to hear from you Bryan,
I have heard that eltee is a "gun expert" of sorts...perhaps he'll jump in here and comment... |
Well, I'm no "expert" but I have been a federally licensed gun dealer and builder for over 20 years, and a cop longer than that. My educated guess is that it is, in fact, a CA .44 Bulldog. I remember back in the era of BR that the Bulldog was THE most popular .44 Special around. I don't even recall the Pub model until later years, although I am not saying it didn't exist back then (I'm sure a little checking with CA or an era specific gun catalog would confirm). The Bulldogs were all over the place, gunshop wise, and were a bargain. Again, my guess is that it was readily available, plentiful (if they made more than one shooting blaster) and cheap...things that prop makers put a value on.
Looking at the Karl Tate photos compared with a CA .44 Special frame, I think there is no doubt that the gun is most certainly a CA.
FYI, I showed Karl's photos to my contact with Steyr Arms. The engineers there were most interested in it, apparently being totally unfamiliar with the BR blaster. It was quite the buzz at the Steyr factory, apparently, that a Steyr was used in a well known movie. Yes, I did discuss this with Karl and got his permission to share the photos. |
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phase pistol Community Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2006 Posts: 1147
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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eltee wrote: | Well, I'm no "expert" but I have been a federally licensed gun dealer and builder for over 20 years, and a cop longer than that. |
Yep, he's a gun expert! |
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Noeland Community Guide
Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 1328
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Andy, I've never seen that model before!! Cool man, thanks for posting that. It did occur to me after I posted that the "target" model 44's might have had extractor shrouds on them too. I know they had the adjustable rear sights, and a longer, thicker barrel.
For a time I wondered if one had been modified for the blaster, but after seeing Karl's photos knew it wasn't the case.
_________________ I don't have enough blasters! |
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andy Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 6237 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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A little more info found on ebay to confuse things...
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Noeland Community Guide
Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 1328
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, nice find Andy. Again!
That police bulldog sure brings to mind the colt python. I'm sure it's designed that way intentionally.
Any idea what year this ad is from? _________________ I don't have enough blasters! |
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BigLoop22 Community Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2008 Posts: 19 Location: Louisiana
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Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: |
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Hello, people!
I love Blade Runner. I have been a fan since the early 1980's. It is good to see this forum.
I wanted to comment on this item:
Once-bitten wrote: | Thanks Nexus!
I'm seeing discrepancies in all these area's:
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I know that the question has been addressed, but I can imbue a little something, here:
The "half moon" screw that is missing from the hero gun is actually a "cylinder stop". Charter no longer uses that part, so the newer guns do not have a hole for it.
The cylinder release button appears to be in a different position on Rich's bare frame, because the cylinder needs to be in the frame, and it needs to be closed, in order for the center of the ejector rod to push the release button back to its "normal" position.
The hinge area, ahead of the trigger, is for the cylinder yoke (or crane). Rich's bare frame has no yoke in it.
Some of the other "discrepencies" can be explained by the fact that the entire grip frame/ trigger guard has been removed from Rich's frame.
There have also been some illustrations of "Bulldogs through the ages". I have a .38 Special "Police Bulldog", 6-shot, 4-inch barrel, with shroud, from 1971:
It seems that Charter has recycled their names, and applied them to almost any variation of their guns. It appears that ALL Charter grip frames are the same, so various Charter grips should fit ALL Charter revolvers. Other parts may also interchange, among the Charter revolvers.
Here is a 5-shot, .38 Special "Off-Duty Special", from 1993, that I used to own:
That's enough for my first post!
Shawn |
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andy Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 6237 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Shawn,
Thank you for your post and confirming some of my suspicions. Have you ever removed the shroud on your 4" barrel? I am curious if it is anything like the 4" on the hero prop? It may answer if the barrel was custom made or not.
Thank you again,
Andy |
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BigLoop22 Community Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2008 Posts: 19 Location: Louisiana
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Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:19 am Post subject: |
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Andy,
You are welcome.
I have not removed the shroud. I, too, am curious to see what's under it, but it has been on the gun for 37 years. For the moment, I will leave it alone!
A thought just occurred to me: the GunBroker forums, "Ask the Experts" section:
http://forums.gunbroker.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=2
There is one member that has a slew of Charter guns. Let me send a query.
Shawn |
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amish Community Guide
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 1433 Location: Outside Philadelphia
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Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Shawn,
First welcome to the community! Always nice to see BR fans coming together.
Second, thank you so much for sharing some excellent information about the Bulldog. While I am no expert, I still truly enjoyed your posts.
Take care,
Tom _________________ www.propsummit.com
www.bladerunnerprops.com |
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Once-bitten Banned!
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1317
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Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Yes, Welcome Shawn!
I am glad to see someone comment on those discrepancies I was seeing rather than simply dismiss them out of hand,
I actually feel as though I learned something here!
I would love to see someone start making suggestions as to cheaper, more readily available alternatives to the REAL frame...
are there any other pistols that are similar enough? |
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andy Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 6237 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: |
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The CA bulldogs are pretty cheap. Their was a 44 at the gun show last week for under $300, and an undercover 38 for around $200. If I had a pistol permit I may have bought the 44 bulldog. That reminds me, I still have yet to get my parts back from Sid.
Andy |
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BigLoop22 Community Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2008 Posts: 19 Location: Louisiana
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Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:27 am Post subject: |
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...well, noone on the GunBroker forum wants to remove their barrel shrouds! Some of them have had their shrouds come off, though. The barrel is just a plain-looking, rifled , steel tube.
Shrouded barrels have been around a long time. Various manufacturers have used them. Dan Wesson has made interchageable barrels for their pistols, for quite a long time. Usually, they sell the spare barrels with their shrouds. Here is just a barrel for sale:
https://shop.cz-usa.com/images/items/zoom/20016.jpg
https://shop.cz-usa.com/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=20016
...for the Dan Wesson .22 revolver. What I am getting at is that a gunsmith can take long barrel, say from a rifle, and cut it & thread it, to fit whichever frame he wants it to fit- if there is enough material to work with. A revolver does not need its barrel to have a chamber cut into its breech end, like a rifle, or a semi-auto pistol does. A revolver needs a forcing cone:
http://www.gunblast.com/images/Ruger-SRHAlaskan480/MVC-112F.jpg
...like a little funnel, in the breech end of its barrel, to guide the bullets through the cylinder/ barrel gap, and into the bore of the barrel. A gunsmith uses a forcing cone reamer to get this angle correct. Since movie props are expected to be used for a finite time, a studio gunsmith may "make-do" to get a blaster together. So, he might use whaterver is laying around , like some surplus/ shot-out/ sewer pipe barrels, that he has sitting in the corner.
On a related note, I recall seeing on-line gun auction catalogs for old movie & TV working prop guns. There were several props that were made from a revolver hidden inside of some concockted shell. Some of these props were made to look like semi-auto pistols.
I always thought that the Blade Runner blaster was recognizable, yet ambiguous enough to make me think that it could be a real "gun of the future". Finally seeing exactly what it is makes me think that it took some imagination to put it together. It is functional, foreign, and almost elegant. It is definitely ultracool hardware.
Shawn |
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Noeland Community Guide
Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 1328
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Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Andy, you should ask Craig about working with real bulldogs to build a hero blaster. He's done it twice, and I can personally vouch for the fact that he owned about 7 of them once. We used them all as firing weapons in PAIN, my first movie.
I'm sure he could answer any questions you guys have. _________________ I don't have enough blasters! |
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BigLoop22 Community Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2008 Posts: 19 Location: Louisiana
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:47 am Post subject: |
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...or, maybe, you could just buy a gun with a long barrel, and cut it to the length that you need:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=111690822
From the auction description:
"Bulldog in 357-mag. 6" barrel, NIB. Unfired. Box,Papers Included. Gun is 99.9 % blue,hair turn line, case color still on hammer. Wood grips would be perfect but, there's a hairline crack on left panel at top & goes down the the medallion.Box very good condition, paper work also. Very slim 357-mag. & only one I have seen! Looks to be from 60's ? SN-4754xx. FFL & ship @ cost. Make sure your FFL will accept with photo ID. "
Shawn |
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andy Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 6237 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:22 am Post subject: |
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...Except for the drastic taper to the barrel. The barrel on the prop is pretty even.
Andy |
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